Dear Jed. We are engaging because we have no choice. Because the police are apparently co-opted as the private militia for one particular group. I agree with you that arguing for slices of the pie based on how oppressed one feels is not a helpful way to spend one’s days. But what alternative challenge do you suggest? We just let the police crack on with this? I think there is a real risk they are in breach of their public sector equality duty. But we can’t make that challenge without some actual knowledge. Lets see what they are willing to admit/share about how they ‘celebrate’ and ‘promote’ EVERY protected characteristic. Reply
Of course you have a choice Sarah, you could simply insist that the police treat everyone exactly the same, no fear or favour as the saying goes. Instead you’re using an argument where one particular protected characteristic needs to trump another one to prove your point and in doing so you embed the grievance hierarchy many of us want to see the end off. You’re of course perfectly entitled to conduct your campaign however you see fit. I cannot support it if these are the tactics you are going to employ, so I’ll wish you well with your high court appeal if that’s the way you go and be on my way. Reply
Dear Jed Sorry you don’t feel you can support what Fair Cop are doing here. I want to see the police enforce the law, catch criminals and protect the public. I think what they are being rail roaded into doing by Stonewall et al is wrong. I am sure most police officers on the front line are as fed up as we all are. What I hope we will achieve is to show the sheer hypocrisy and unworkability of the current mess. I may be wrong. Only time will tell. But I can’t sit by and do nothing. This is the something I think is right. Reply
I think Jed made a valid point about “oppression Olympics”, but withdrawing his support from FairCop on that basis is somewhat throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Democracy has been in retreat from political correctness for 50 years now, since before that term was coined in the late 80s to describe the Marxist mind war against democracy. The Knowles judgement was an earthquake. It could be our El Alemain. I don’t think I’m going to use what I think is a tactical misstep to desert from Harry ‘Monty’ Miller’s desert rats. If you get a response from the NPCC, I imagine it will be to point out that ‘hate crime’ incidents against disabled people are extremely low, whereas they are far higher against transgender people. The issue is surely that protecting trans people as a vulnerable minority is one thing, acting as the enforcement arm of ‘Big Trans’ to stamp out democratic debate is another. That leads to High Court Judgements rightly likening such conduct to the “Stasi”. In my personal opinion men who think they’re women (and vice versa) and mutilate themselves is a disability. It’s the mental illness of dysphoria. Far from the police seeking to become an ‘LGBT Ally’, they should be looking at how the LGBT agenda in schools parallels that of PIE in the 80s and be opening files accordingly. ‘Child’ is the one ‘protected characteristic’ that should trump all others. Reply
Fair enough Sarah, I just think a playing them at their own game approach is misjudged. It can and maybe will be interpreted by the police that you’re campaigning for them to enforce the current ridiculous hate speech laws rather than to get rid of them altogether. They’re not the sharpest knives in the drawer after all. I want a free for all back, totally unfettered free speech, get rid of all this hate speech and protected characteristic nonsense and let better speech deal with bad speech. My rights trump your rights feels like you’re accepting the status quo to me. Greame, you’re right I probably have thrown the baby out with the bathwater here. But I’m not sure “ensuring they recognise citizens’ freedom of expression while continuing to provide robust protection against real crimes that are truly motivated by hatred” is enough for me that’s all. Especially if “real crimes” includes what is now legally defined as hate speech, I want rid of those too. Reply
I have mild Austism and that comes under “disability” as a protected characteristic. When I worked in an office, the managers use to favour a black person over me. Meaning she could get away with stuff that I couldn’t. The funny ironic thing is, they use to say I had special treatment! These protected characteristics, 5 strands of hate crime, don’t all match with each other in harmony. I don’t care about black people’s issues because I’m not black and she didn’t care about my Austism because she wasn’t Autistic. You tend to care more about something when you can relate to it. So my point is out of the 9 protected characteristics each group is different, meaning they don’t all like each other! Lol Reply
I am relieved to see from a recently published FOI request by Fair Cop, that many police forces have indeed been able to supply the figures of how much public money they are spending on membership of political campaigning organisation and “training” from them and rainbow lanyards and paraphernalia. The figures confirm my disappointment, as a black person, that all protected characteristics are equal but some more equal than others… Here’s an example local to where I live: through a FOI request by Fair Cop recently, the Metropolitan Police revealed that for ‘Pride 2020’, it spent £1,000 on 150 police ‘rainbow’ epaulettes, £1,000 on ‘pride’ polo shirts and £700 on stickers for its ‘pride vehicle’. It has spent £12,500 on membership of Stonewall since 2017. This is public money going to waste on frivolous, nay, politically divisive expenditure. Where is the “show racism the red card” paraphernalia? After all like me, 35%of Londoners are from black, Asian and minority ethnic(BAME)groups. Where is the evidence of proportionate efforts to sensitise Met officers to the needs and sensitivities of BAME Londoners? Where is the evidence of significant and high profile reaching out to recruit and train high-calibre BAME officers for the Met? Despite the police Code of Conduct, Stownwall have suceeded in capturing police forces up and down the country. And so they should- they are a campaigning organisation loudly and effectively championing the feelings and views of the 2-3% LGBTQ people nationally. It is up to MPs and Police Commissioners to regulate police activities in keeping with their noble mandate to serve and protect all citizens without fear or favour. Reply
I couldn’t agree with you more except for the last bit. Trans Activists have successfully piggybacked themselves onto and into the LGB community and they are elevated above all others in the same way they are elevated above all others by the police. When you look at the breakdown of spending at Stonewalled you can see very clearly who is being supported and who isn’t. The proportion of funding directed at Lesbians is miniscule and even then it still has to include males who identify as women. As a Lesbian this isn’t news to me I’ve always found the so called community misogynistic but the point is even within groups some people (men) are more equal than others. As far as I’m concerned the police need to be politically neutral and all hate crime legislation needs to be scrapped. That doesnt mean that I think the police shouldn’t be aware of how and who they police but this flag waving nonsense has to stop. Reply